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Post by Matthew Of Canberra on Dec 18, 2012 7:15:51 GMT 10
I'm going to have to return to blair's follow-up today. It seems that gun-related murders aren't a problem in the US at all!
His numbers are probably wrong. The 2011 FBI data suggest that gun homicides run at just under 9000, not 12000. But that could just be a classification question - the FBI probably only considers convictions, whereas the 12000 figure might be prosecutions.
The problem is that homicides aren't the whole story. Chuck in the 135,000 aggravated assaults with a weapon gun, and the 130,000 robberies at gun-point (and again, I'm assuming that these are only _convictions_) and it's a different picture. Then throw in accidental shootings - there are over 9000 admissions to hospital emergency wards annually for gunshot wounds presented by people aged 18 and under. And that ignores suicides with firearms. Based on blair's own figures, gun-suicides alone exceed our entire national suicide rate by 50%.
I have read (but haven't tried to verify - that would take a fair bit of time, which I don't have just now) that if you take away the gun-related data, the US crime rates drop back to OECD norms, pretty much across the board. But again - I haven't checked that, so it might not be true.
Anyone who seriously wants to argue that the US doesn't have a problem with gun violence needs to do a bit better than declaring that not all that many people who're shot in (provably) criminal circumstances actually die.
If there was no problem with gun violence, we wouldn't be seeing all those wingnuts writing articles this week about how everyone should be arming up to defend themselves against gun violence.
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Post by chookmustard on Dec 18, 2012 8:17:11 GMT 10
Having read his gun crime post, let's just say I'm underwhelmed. Of particular interest is his argument that Obama should counter intuitively go against his base by fortifying primary schools, much as Howard went against his base by implementing tough gun laws.
Is he taking the piss?
Howard had exemptions in place, it wasn't a total disarming of the population. What type of people were against his reform? Surely not the entire Lib/Nat base? Surely the conservatives realized that if they lost a few unhappy gun enthusiasts votes they would have made up a few on the other side who weren't rusted on Greens or Labor.
I know my dad handed in his guns (sentimental value, he used to keep them in the roof) and he was/is no Labor voter
The other thing that comes to mind is what kind of country do you want to live in? A country that needs armed teachers and armed guards in primary schools for protection against the off chance of some unbalanced person going postal is quite disturbing.
There is no way of removing violence from society but the means by which it is perpetrated can surely be controlled.
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Post by angra on Dec 18, 2012 20:09:36 GMT 10
Anyone see Southpark last night? "Red Sleigh Down"
Jesus was packing and he kicked some ass in Eyerak! But got shot.
Luckily Santa and Cartman save the day.
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Post by chookmustard on Dec 22, 2012 22:11:24 GMT 10
Timbo posted about David Paris, a Greens party tech guy. This young man has a new residence in Canberra. A rental with a lake view that came at a really good price apparently due to local conditions.
Big news.
Cue snarky comments about energy efficiency (David says its quite efficient). Greenies should be in caves or forests... Cue snarky comments about how the hell can he afford such digs (Timbo doesn't mention the rental thing). Small oversight.
Tim is not even trying. I don't read him much, is this just laziness or the usual quality work?
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Post by jack on Dec 24, 2012 8:45:11 GMT 10
Well, Timmeh's now taken Jane Caro to task for effectively telling her daughter, a teacher, never to put her life on the line to save her pupils. In his News £td echo chamber, Timmeh is unlikely to be faced with the proposition that maybe asking teachers to make the ultimate sacrifice is far from being any kind of solution to the problem he persists in skirting around. Oh but of course teachers can opt to fulfill Timmeh's ideal of the Pedagogic Tactical Response Bot. Yup, anything's better than submit to self examination. Just keep throwing more bodies and psyches on the bonfire of Timmeh's vanity. I read recently that the son of current NRA president David Keene was sentenced to ten years in prison for “using, brandishing, and discharging a firearm in a crime of violence.” See www.techyville.com/2012/12/social-media/bet-you-didnt-know-nra-leaders-son-fired-at-another-motorist-during-a-road-rage-incident/The author at that link further observes: Perhaps the NRA is not aware that having so many easily accessible, high-powered killing machines available in a society full of emotionally fragile people can turn our nation into the wild-wild west. That emotional fragility is quite evident in a polity where the players often don't seem to have progressed emotionally beyond a junior high school level of discourse. That's perhaps a topic for a future monograph, but meantime anyone who disagrees is a loser and can eat my shorts.
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Post by Matthew Of Canberra on Dec 24, 2012 14:14:54 GMT 10
I'm astonished that the pro-gun sphere is being so calm at the prospect of arming teachers, in order that they may defend students from sudden death from (usually) legally-owned firearms.
This is the leader of the world we're talking about. The land of the free. The first world. The land of opportunity.
And we see an enabler here locally contending that teachers who aren't prepared to offer themselves as a decoy target to the inevitable next shooting are somehow less than acceptable.
How the insanity of this isn't occuring to them is beyond me.
And it's just a distraction anyway - arm teachers, and the next attack will be planned so that armed teachers don't pose a problem.
Anything at all to avoid making the common citizen have to stop and reload every each 6 rounds or so.
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Post by angra on Dec 24, 2012 14:25:35 GMT 10
Little Timmeh (aka Yosemite Tim) makes a feeble attempt at accusing Swan of enjoying "armed protection" and therefore he should support more guns...
"As acting Prime Minister, Wayne Swan enjoys armed protection:
He notes the requisite security detail is ‘’pretty different’’. ‘’It makes the neighbours feel very safe,’’ he chuckles …
He chuckles? The man’s clearly an NRA puppet."
But the article he links to says nothing about "armed protection".
It contains around a hundred sentences about Swan enjoying Christmas with his family, and this is the one small section which Timmeh thinks means Swan should be sympathetic to the NRA.
"He notes the requisite security detail is ''pretty different''. ''It makes the neighbours feel very safe,'' he chuckles, but it also means he can't easily duck out for some last-minute Christmas shopping."
What a completely peurile fool is Yosemite Tim. He really is an embarrassment to even the Daily Terror.
I don't think Tiny Tim's going to get many presents this year. He's been a bad boy.
God curse them one and all.
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Post by Matthew Of Canberra on Dec 24, 2012 20:04:07 GMT 10
"Little Timmeh (aka Yosemite Tim) makes a feeble attempt at accusing Swan of enjoying "armed protection" and therefore he should support more guns..."
Having guards is not the same as packing a pistol for self defense. If one were really a genuine target of possible violence, actually planning to stand one's ground and shoot it out for one's self would be a most unusual response. No sane security consultant would advise that. For one thing, you're just a stationary target until the bullets run out (unless you can do a real bruce willis and fire over your shoulder whilst running). For another, you'll end up shooting somebody you shouldn't, and end up in the clink for manslaughter. Heck - that could even happen if you should somebody you SHOULD.
I seem to recall posting similar comments after one police commissioner tried to claim that carrying a pistol (with a half-empty magazine - something he should really have been quizzed about most vigorously) was for personal protection - and a great belly laugh was had by all.
The pro-gun lobby needs to stop taking movies at face value, and to start actually thinking a bit.
Red Dawn was not a realistic documentary. If you look closely, you can tell by the hair products.
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zoot
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by zoot on Dec 29, 2012 21:39:15 GMT 10
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Post by Matthew Of Canberra on Jan 2, 2013 9:54:08 GMT 10
I sort-of disagree with this: www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-02/call-to-ban-youths-from-driving-high-performance-cars/4449924Ipswich Mayor Paul Pisasale says he wants a ban on young people driving high-powered cars, after two men were killed in a crash west of Brisbane yesterday. I understand the motive, but it falls over when you start looking at the numbers. A WRX isn't "high-powered" when it's placed next to a V6 commodore. It's just a lot lighter, has lots of mid-range torque and AWD. In fact, I would suggest that - just looking at this objectively - a WRX is a far, far safer car than a commodore. It sticks to the road like poo on a blanket (as they say), its brakes are astonishing, its traction is phenomenal in the wet and the new ones are astonishingly tough in a crash. In the right hands, that's a very very safe car - it just happens to accelerate like a splashed moggie and sound like it's not quite idling right. The problem isn't the car. The problem is the kids who buy them. And even then, I'd like to see some statistics that show that "fully sick" cars are over-represented in the accident stats (these probably exist, but I'd still like to see them). The problem with objectively defining a "high powered" car is that, well, it can't really be done without massive bodges. If you want to eliminate the cars the idiotic teenagers drive, that'll just take a heck of a lot of 90's commodores off the road. I'm not sure what the solution is, to be honest. But I'd love to see the suggestions. Maybe just a prescriptive list of what specific models of cars can be driven on L's and P's, with a blanket ban on suspension or performance modifications? Thankfully the car manufacturers keep making our cars better and better. It's actually quite impressive that somebody managed to CRASH a wrx. My impression is that you pretty much have to drive them straight at a wall before they throw up their little wheels and admit failure.
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Post by angra on Jan 3, 2013 20:39:47 GMT 10
Little Timmeh is mixing with seriously bad company.
Current TV (Founded by Al Gore) has been sold to Al Jazeera, so that according to Timmeh means Al's sold out to Big Oil. Tim adds an update “Al’s a whore, basically. Gore, I mean."
Glenn Beck's offer was rejected - surely the sign of a conspiracy against all right-thinking persons?
Click on Timmeh's link and you find this amazing piece of journalism (which I assume he endorses as he links to it) ...
"Colonel Jerry USMC Posted January 2, 2013 at 8:20 pm |
El Jefe,
The word you are looking for? It is: FLATPETER!
Al Gore is so insecure (since before birth…) he could not stand being VP, could not stand the Supremes calling him a loser, saw his GloBall Scheme go stagnent, got fat, lost his wife, tried to fuck a massage parlor wench, and eventually went apeshit and bought a TV station, which maxed out at 44 watchers…….. He is now down to zero friends; a 1 inch dick (…when erect…) and is in massive denial that his entire life is a miserable failure, mainly because he is a latent cocksucker, who hates himself when he puts it in his mouth!!!!!!"
Such wit! such clever repartee! Worthy of Timmeh himself (except he's not grown up enough to use big rude words himself. So just links to them instead).
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Post by angra on Jan 13, 2013 20:21:09 GMT 10
Blair is stark raving loony bonkers mad. There's no other way to describe his latest scribbles.
I've given up even trying to frame a response to his complete nonsense.
There was a southerly change in Sydney yesterday, so that proves AGW is a beat up. And some gun-nut shot a robber, so we should obviously all have automatic weapons, and Obama's a leftie! and and and and!!! Me too sir! Me too!
Bugger him - I've wasted five minutes just looking at the shit he's posted today.
Who pays him, and why?
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Post by Matthew Of Canberra on Jan 13, 2013 21:33:21 GMT 10
TB's response to the article about police is schools is about what I'd expect from PJM - it presumes a straw man. BHO didn't reject guards for schools - he quite clearly said that it wasn't sufficient. He also very clearly said that no proposal would be prejudged. So ... where's the story?
It's going to be staggeringly expensive, though, if every school goes down that path. It also won't be anything like enough to keep kids safe, for a range of obvious reasons. The problem that lefties had is that it was the NRA's only concrete proposal, and didn't even consider reforms that they claim to support (then campaign against), like enforcing background checks for gun sales. The NRA was challenged to make a constructive contribution, and they came back with 'screw you all', as one would expect from a powerful but utterly amoral industry lobby group masquerading as a grass roots organisation.
I've also been looking at some of the self-defense stories that blair refers to, and some of them are pretty dodgy. In one case the 'victim' likely shot the bad guy as he was leaving, and there's something plain weird about the case in atlanta - I hope the police look very closely at that one. In the robbery case, it's just hyped. It was a robbery - a snatch and grab. What was at stake was the till. Bad, yes, but probably not life threatening.
I expect that there will be a lot more of those stories coming - the US firearms industry is (I've read) worth about 12 billion, and obama is threatening all that lovely money ... that's a lot of motivation, and it buys a lot of media, and nobody is looking too closely at the claims.
As for that hizby story - I think it's pretty obvious that the sheik is making an historical point in the video. The oz (apparently) got that story wrong, and blair's 'so there' doesn't change that. Generally speaking, if you're the one who got it wrong, it's uncool to call the other guy an idiot for saying so. Still ... it is NEWS ... making the world little bit worse each day.
And I've been completely blocked from posting at PJM. Every single IP address I use is now blocked from posting :-). Apparently I was cramping the gun nuts' style. Probably for the best.
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Post by angra on Jan 14, 2013 5:45:38 GMT 10
MoC - this is a gross violation of your right to freedom of speech. I expect Bolt et al to fully support your campaign against such censorship. And PJM are complaining today about CNN deleting tweets.
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Post by Matthew Of Canberra on Jan 14, 2013 8:47:04 GMT 10
"this is a gross violation of your right to freedom of speech"
Hmm, well, not really. It is a source of amusement to see such epic hypocrisy though.
What it also means is that I needn't waste any more time trying to work out how neromov justifies his rubbish statistics.
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